.......Religion......

[The_Imperialist]

I'm kinda new to this, but I'm going to try and sound legitimate. Religion, touchy as it is, annoys the F--- out of me. I'm only going to talk about Christianity, because i know more about it than other religions. Christianity is very contradicting, for example, it states to never harm thy neighbor yet thousands, millions even, have died in the name of religion. I also hate religious freaks who try to shove their beliefs down your d--- throat all the time. I choose to be "atheist" loosely. I believe in a higher power but not necessarily a god. Even with scientifically proven evidence, they still disbelieve evolution, in some cases, and think that god created the universe. If he did, where did god come from? i wish that some religion nut could answer this with an answer rather than call me a heretic and try to "convert" me.

[dave47561879]

you should join the Church of David and Craig

[The_Imperialist]

Tell me more of this David and Craig

[dave47561879]

Disturbed, care to explain?

[Disturbed]

The Church of David and Kraig (note the "k" in "Kraig"  ) was established in late 2009/early 2010 by myself and a close friend of mine.

David is basically the god of everything except Technology (That's Kraig's area). All of the pictures and descriptions of him note a very upset expression, thus, he was named David the Upset Penguin. He created the world. I go into more detail on their Wiki, which is currently being built. I am also writing a bible.

David was discovered by me in a vision I had during math class.

Kraig was discovered a few months before David, while the close friend and myself were engaged in a game of Left 4 Dead. We both prayed to a man named Kraig, who was the sole-technological-overlord of our world (There are multiple worlds. David is the creator of all of them, but each world has its own technological-overlord guy, Kraig is ours. (By "world", I'm not referring to planets; more like universes)). Just a few moments after praying to Kraig, I became the Tank. I thanked Kraig repeatedly for his gift to myself and our team, and just a few moments later, swiped at a car, and it smashed each of the Survivors. All 4 of them were killed in one hit. From then on, I've prayed to Kraig whenever I need some "luck" with technology.

David is the guy you pray to with life's problems.

As time went on with the Church, I've tried to make it more of a satirical sort of thing that sort of makes fun of some of the more ridiculous aspects of religions and fanatics.

Like I said, more information will become available when the Wiki goes live.

Now, On-topic:

I personally don't care who is religious and who isn't, as long as you aren't excessively talking about it in public (Trying to convert others and telling people how great your religion is is not okay, but praying or saying something like "Thank God!" in public is perfectly acceptable.). I think all religions are BS (except mine, obviously).

[Toast]

I would say I am fairly religious (a religious nut, in your demeaning words and understanding). I really do not fit in with online forums/groups because of this statement alone, but I think I don't really fit your stereotypical view of what a Christian is. I'm not trying to convert anyone, but if you all did accept Christ, that would be really great! I'm not here to judge you or say any of you are wrong, I'm just explaining what I believe (since you asked). I will address all of your statements in order.

First, I agree, many have died in religion's name, and even in Christianity's name. But, you cannot generalize the views of Christianity by some whack-job popes back in the day who said that we were called to a holy crusade to kill Muslims and take the holy land back, or some delusional "Christian" militias that bomb abortion clinics. As a side note, I am not Catholic, but I do respect some popes and Catholic saints. I think the only way you can criticize a religion is by its core. Jesus never taught to kill anyone. He said to love your neighbor as yourself, and to love your enemies. He said Heck, when He was arrested, He knew that He was about to be tried and later killed, Peter cut off the ear of one of the soldiers arresting Jesus (Jesus healed the ear too, but I don't expect you to believe that anytime soon), but Jesus told him to stop fighting, even though He knew He would be killed. Other religions also have some extremist cults that claim to be apart of the larger religion, but do not actually follow what it says. Basically, there are hypocrites everywhere. In Christianity as an institution, it is no different, but as a concept, it is pure. I recommend you pick up a Bible, and read the Gospels. If you don't have that much time, read the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), and I think you will get a better picture about what pure Christianity really is.

Second, I believe in separation from the church and state, from a spiritual standpoint. From this point, I also believe it is unethical to force our morals on another. Sure, I think we can all believe murder, rape, stealing, etc. is bad, but that is universal. Jesus never advocated winning disciples by forcing them into our moral system. Being a Christian has to be done out of one's will, not by force. Jesus says that others will know that we are His disciples by our love. That is how we should show others who we are, we definitely should not force our morals upon them. And like I said, there are hypocritical people that give you a tainted view of this, but that doesn't express what Christ teaches at all.

Third, I believe God could have directed evolution. I believe it could have happened either way (theistic evolution or 7-day creationism), but it doesn't really bother me either way. Why do I think it's possible God could have done this? I mean, life is pretty complex as it is, and I think that it's at least plausible that there was some help involved by a higher power. But as far as those staunch creationists go, they're just fundamentalists. A lot of them fail to realize that many parts of the Bible cannot be taken literally. Many of the prophecies, for example, would not make any sense literally. I think the same could go with Genesis.

Fourth, yes, I definitely believe that God created the universe. I mean, it's less absurd than a scientist saying it came out of nothing--well, more or less of a quantum blip, which really they can't explain why it happened, what it was before that time, or how it got to there. It's really only up to right after the big bang happened (10^-43 sec. after) that they can really say with some certainty what happened. Philosophically, "ex nihilo nihil fit", out of nothing comes nothing. Thermodynamically, mass and energy stay constant in a system, therefore nothing can come from nothing. I just see it as probable that the Big Bang is God's creation manifested. Really, if you think it happened a different way, that's fine; I'm not trying to convert you.

Fifth, I think it's impossible explain where God came from. We believe Him to be omnipotent, which means He is all-powerful, and not bound by anything, including time. In our best explanation, He exists outside of time. The Bible says in Revelation 4: "The Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." Basically, we would be best described as being finite, while God is infinite. It's somewhat easy to explain, but it's impossible from a finite mind to understand, which is sometimes why it is hard for many people to accept these things.


No, I don't think you are a heretic, and I'm not trying to convert you. I was just hoping to answer some of your questions I hope it helped!!

...telling people how great your religion is is not okay... I think all religions are BS (except mine, obviously).

LOL 

[Disturbed]

Nice post Toast.

Like you said, you can't judge an entire religion based on a few of the people who take part in it.

I've been a closet-atheist/agnostic for around 3 years now. Rest of my family is Christian. I've been forced to read The Bible, pray, and generally worship God all of my life. My mom is sort of a hypocrite. She's  fairly anarchistic and says that you can't change or force other people to do things because it's wrong, but then will turn around and force her beliefs down my throat. I honestly think that if I told her about not being Christian, she would start freaking out and tell me that we were now going to go to church every Sunday.

I'm really more on the Agnostic side of things; I don't feel like any of the sides are able to provide a convincing argument, since most (if not all) religions are based on faith, and just believing what you are told. I feel better just staying out of it.

[Toast]

I'm sorry for your poor experiences. It's obvious why many are turned off by Christianity. The posers really ruin it for other people who are just starting to understand it. In my opinion, the "Christian" Right (politically) is total junk. They try to force others into following their morals, and are generally very fiscally selfish when it comes to taxes. I wish everyone in the church could act more Christ-like, because that way it would really show what Christianity is really about. I'm not saying that I'm completely Christ-like, but I hope to be

[Disturbed]

Right, Christianity's morals and teachings are good, as are most religion's. The only thing I have trouble believing is the higher-beings.

[Testmonkey7]

Toast, thanks for sticking up for Christianity and not looking like a jerk while doing it.

[Toast]

Right, Christianity's morals and teachings are good, as are most religion's. The only thing I have trouble believing is the higher-beings.

As do many people.

Toast, thanks for sticking up for Christianity and not looking like a jerk while doing it.

I try. The Bible is very direct about trying to not offend anyone.

[dave47561879]

Right, Christianity's morals and teachings are good, as are most religion's. The only thing I have trouble believing is the higher-beings.

As do many people.

Toast, thanks for sticking up for Christianity and not looking like a jerk while doing it.

I try. The Bible is very direct about trying to not offend anyone.

personally, i dont believe that the bible is accurate... if i remember correctly, the bible was written atleast 300 years after the events occurred. and if your rebuttal is that the story was passed down by generations, you have to add the telephone game effect (things get twisted)

[The_Imperialist]

Right, Christianity's morals and teachings are good, as are most religion's. The only thing I have trouble believing is the higher-beings.

As do many people.

Toast, thanks for sticking up for Christianity and not looking like a jerk while doing it.

I try. The Bible is very direct about trying to not offend anyone.

personally, i dont believe that the bible is accurate... if i remember correctly, the bible was written atleast 300 years after the events occurred. and if your rebuttal is that the story was passed down by generations, you have to add the telephone game effect (things get twisted)

For example: Jesus turned water to wine. Could have been; Jesus grabbed the second pitcher of water, dumped it on the ground and filled it with wine when no one was looking

[Toast]

Right, Christianity's morals and teachings are good, as are most religion's. The only thing I have trouble believing is the higher-beings.

As do many people.

Toast, thanks for sticking up for Christianity and not looking like a jerk while doing it.

I try. The Bible is very direct about trying to not offend anyone.

personally, i dont believe that the bible is accurate... if i remember correctly, the bible was written atleast 300 years after the events occurred. and if your rebuttal is that the story was passed down by generations, you have to add the telephone game effect (things get twisted)

For example: Jesus turned water to wine. Could have been; Jesus grabbed the second pitcher of water, dumped it on the ground and filled it with wine when no one was looking

Well that's the difference between you and me, I guess. One of us believes what the Bible says, and the other doesn't. You can't really argue it much past that point.

And to Dave, yes, some parts of the Bible were written much after, like the Torah/Pentateuch/First 5 books of the Old Testament were estimated at around ~3000 years after some of the events (i.e., Adam and Eve) are analyzed to have happened, sometimes especially longer if you are a theistic evolutionist. But some books, like the prophets, scholars believe many were written originally by the authors/prophets themselves, and that they were not sayings or other writings that were passed down/compiled and written later (such as Proverbs, Book of Kings, etc.). But, as far as Christians are concerned, the real importance is the dating of the New Testament books. Most scholars believe that the Gospels (books about Jesus' life) were written anywhere from 25-60 years after Jesus' death and resurrection. Why not any sooner? Even some of Paul's letters were written sooner (1 Thessalonians), but the Gospels were (mostly) written by the Apostles, some of which were uneducated, like John the Apostle, who was a fisherman before he followed Jesus. In John's work, the Greek is eloquently simple, which can be related to his lack of education, but further affirms the belief that he was the author, so it's probably not likely it was written way after he died (the first fragment of his book found from around 25-60 years after John's death). Back to the point, these books were put on "hold" after the resurrection because they didn't really think yet that they needed texts about Jesus' life. Jesus said He was coming back soon, which to them meant imminently, but God has His own timing. They most likely started writing the Gospels when they saw false doctrine plaguing the early church, although it could have been them writing what they knew because they thought they were going to die soon. Look up the dating of the Bible on Wikipedia. For the Gospels, almost all scholars believe that they were all written before 100AD, and some believe that some (such as Luke) could have been written within a half decade of Jesus' death. So, for the books that hold the most esteem with Christians, there isn't really too long of a time after Christ in which they were written.